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    Security clearance jobs

    GUIDELINE F: FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS
    18. The Concern. Failure or inability to live within one's means, satisfy debts, and meet financial obligations may indicate poor self-control, lack of judgment, or unwillingness to abide by rules and regulations, all of which can raise questions about an individual's reliability, trustworthiness and ability to protect classified information. An individual who is financially overextended is at risk of having to engage in illegal acts to generate funds. Compulsive gambling is a concern as it may lead to financial crimes including espionage. Affluence that cannot be explained by known sources of income is also a security concern. It may indicate proceeds from financially profitable criminal acts.
    19. Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include:
    (a) inability or unwillingness to satisfy debts;
    (b) indebtedness caused by frivolous or irresponsible spending and the absence of any evidence of willingness or intent to pay the debt or establish a realistic plan to pay the debt.
    (c) a history of not meeting financial obligations;
    (d) deceptive or illegal financial practices such as embezzlement, employee theft, check fraud, income tax evasion, expense account fraud, filing deceptive loan statements, and other intentional financial breaches of trust;
    (e) consistent spending beyond one's means, which may be indicated by excessive indebtedness, significant negative cash flow, high debt-to-income ratio, and/or other financial analysis;
    (f) financial problems that are linked to drug abuse, alcoholism, gambling problems, or other issues of security concern.
    (g) failure to file annual Federal, state, or local income tax returns as required or the fraudulent filing of the same;
    (h) unexplained affluence, as shown by a lifestyle or standard of living, increase in net worth, or money transfers that cannot be explained by subject's known legal sources of income;
    (i) compulsive or addictive gambling as indicated by an unsuccessful attempt to stop gambling, "chasing losses" (i.e. increasing the bets or returning another day in an effort to get even), concealment of gambling losses, borrowing money to fund gambling or pay gambling debts, family conflict or other problems caused by gambling.
    20. Conditions that could mitigate security concerns include:
    (a) the behavior happened so long ago, was so infrequent, or occurred under such circumstances that it is unlikely to recur and does not cast doubt on the individual's current reliability, trustworthiness, or good judgment;
    (b) the conditions that resulted in the financial problem were largely beyond the person's control (e.g. loss of employment, a business downturn, unexpected medical emergency, or a death, divorce or separation), and the individual acted responsibly under the circumstances;
    (c) the person has received or is receiving counseling for the problem and/or there are clear indications that the problem is being resolved or is under control;
    (d) the individual initiated a good-faith effort to repay overdue creditors or otherwise resolve debts;
    (e) the individual has a reasonable basis to dispute the legitimacy of the past-due debt which is the cause of the problem and provides documented proof to substantiate the basis of the dispute or provides evidence of actions to resolve the issue;
    (f) the affluence resulted from a legal source of income.

    Anything we can do to still get job or save the one we have.

    #2
    I serve in the National Guard and must have a security clearance to keep my job. When I was first granted a clearance I was in much better shape financially than I am now. I'll be up for review in a few years and at that point I'll have to face the consequences.

    Personally, my financial situation was caused by a business downturn, section 20b, under such circumstances that it is unlikely to recur (the biggest recession we've seen in decades), 20a. My hope is that whoever is reviewing the paperwork will agree that the situation "does not cast doubt on [my] current reliability, trustworthiness, or good judgment," that I "acted responsibly under the circumstances," and that before I filed bankruptcy I "initiated a good-faith effort to repay overdue creditors or otherwise resolve debts"

    Bankruptcy is not an automatic disqualifier for a security clearance. I've seen members of my unit let go (or denied re-enlistment) because they hadn't paid their debts for a long time, but never for filing bankruptcy. If you already HAVE a security clearance then you shouldn't have to worry about it until you're up for review. For most sensitive jobs that's every 10 years, but others may be more frequent.

    The biggest concern about debts is that someone could hold them over your head and convince you to commit espionage or some other crime. If your debts are discharged, then there's nothing to hold over your head.

    A close second is that if you have poor judgment or lack of responsibility in financial matters then you'll have the same issues in other areas of your life. This is where it's very subjective. If you want a security clearance with a bankruptcy on your record, you'll have to find something in section 20 that applies to you and that you can argue if the question every comes up. I would start planning your argument now.

    Comment


      #3
      What a Stretch of possibilities/PARANOIA

      Man, they just about covered every possibility with a stretch of their imagination and paranoia. These individuals broad brushed stroked every category of behavior that they could think of. They should be drug tested because their thought process suggests that they are psychotic, paranoid,
      with passive aggressive personalities, suggesting they regularly use marijuana,
      hashish, speed, heroin, cocaine, and or crack. They also probably misuse pharmaceuticals and are probably into pornographic material. They appear to have tendencies where they beat their dogs, children and spouses. They are probably into cruelty to their work mates and supervisors and even enjoy it.
      SEE, I CAN DO THE SAME NONSENSE THEY CAN DO. There are so many sick people in our bureaucratic work forces at all levels, 1984 types. JUST A WASTE OF HUMANITY. WE ARE IN HUGH TROUBLE IN THIS COUNTRY WITH THESE SO CALLED LEADERS.

      Comment


        #4
        What is the question?

        Everyone that I have talked to on this concedes that bankruptcy is merely a "factor" and most of the time, not an issue. Reason being, bankruptcy cures the financial problems that create the risk. Who is really more desperate, the person who owes $90,000, is constantly late on payments and has no means to pay back this debt, or the person who filed bankruptcy, canceled all their debt and is now living within their means?

        This is the one "uber" myth of bankruptcy that leads to so much suffering. Families liquidating retirement accounts to "stay afloat", robbing peter to pay paul, struggling needlessly for years, depression, divorce, etc., all because they have this misguided belief that bankruptcy will ruin their lives worse than being in debt for the rest of their lives.
        Last edited by HHM; 03-10-2010, 09:27 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by HHM View Post
          What is the question?

          Everyone that I have talked to on this concedes that bankruptcy is merely a "factor" and most of the time, not an issue. Reason being, bankruptcy cures the financial problems that create the risk. Who is really more desperate, the person who owes $90,000, is constantly late on payments and has no means to pay back this debt, or the person who filed bankruptcy, cancelled all their debt and is now living withing their means?

          This is the one "uber" myth of bankruptcy that leads to so much suffering. Families liquidating retirement accounts to "stay afloat", robbing peter to pay paul, struggling needlessly for years, depression, divorce, etc., all because they have this misguided belief that bankruptcy will ruin their lives worse than being in debt for the rest of their lives.
          HHM: I was just told yesterday by somebody who should know... "omg....nobody says "uber" anymore".

          You're welcome.

          Comment


            #6
            It does affect your clearance, bad credit or recent bankruptcy. At least that's what all the recruiters keep telling me!
            Filed: 6-7-2010 341: 7-15-2010 DISCHARGED: 9/17/2010

            Comment


              #7
              Bankruptcy should heal anxiety, not create more. If you're competing against people with squeaky clean credit for a job, well, it doesn't really matter whether you have filed bankruptcy or just have 'bad' credit, correct?

              Actually, filing bankruptcy should prove to an employer: you can make business decisions, you now have less personal baggage to distract you, you are more confident, you can learn from your experiences, you take initiative, and, in fact, you are in better financial and emotional shape than struggling debtors.

              I wouldn't bring that to an interview, granted, but those are some things to keep in mind. Do you really want to work for an employer that makes automated judgments about you and live with that sort of paranoia while you're working all day long? The purpose of your cover sheet, resume, and interview are to prove your confidence and skills, not to feel neurotic about a perfectly legal personal finance decision that millions make each year.
              Filed Joint, No Asset, > $100,000 Unsecured Ch.7 6/7/13 ~~ 341 Meeting 7/15/13 ~~ Discharged 9/16/13 !!

              Comment


                #8
                Well thought out and expressed

                Thank you PIZZA! the comment was well thought out and expressed. I will certainly use it in my next interview if it comes up. I am now Awaiting my 341 hearing March 3rd and am represented by an attorney. I am a little nervous but am resigned to my attorneys direction and hoping for the best. Thank you!
                Gracious

                Comment


                  #9
                  Keep reading your original post.....

                  20. Conditions that could mitigate security concerns include:
                  (a) the behavior happened so long ago, was so infrequent, or occurred under such circumstances that it is unlikely to recur and does not cast doubt on the individual's current reliability, trustworthiness, or good judgment;

                  WHEN DID YOU FILE FOR BANKRUPTCY? WHY DID YOU FILE? ANY MEDICAL BILLS?




                  (b) the conditions that resulted in the financial problem were largely beyond the person's control (e.g. loss of employment, a business downturn, unexpected medical emergency, or a death, divorce or separation), and the individual acted responsibly under the circumstances;

                  WHY DID YOU FILE?
                  (c) the person has received or is receiving counseling for the problem and/or there are clear indications that the problem is being resolved or is under control;

                  DID YOU DO CREDIT COUNSELING THAT IS REQUIRED FOR BANKRUPTCY?

                  (d) the individual initiated a good-faith effort to repay overdue creditors or otherwise resolve debts;

                  DID YOU TRY TO PAY BACK YOUR DEBT?

                  (e) the individual has a reasonable basis to dispute the legitimacy of the past-due debt which is the cause of the problem and provides documented proof to substantiate the basis of the dispute or provides evidence of actions to resolve the issue;

                  DO YOU AGREE WITH ALL THE DEBT?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by HHM View Post
                    Everyone that I have talked to on this concedes that bankruptcy is merely a "factor" and most of the time, not an issue. Reason being, bankruptcy cures the financial problems that create the risk. Who is really more desperate, the person who owes $90,000, is constantly late on payments and has no means to pay back this debt, or the person who filed bankruptcy, cancelled all their debt and is now living withing their means?
                    Originally posted by Pizza View Post
                    Actually, filing bankruptcy should prove to an employer: you can make business decisions, you now have less personal baggage to distract you, you are more confident, you can learn from your experiences, you take initiative, and, in fact, you are in better financial and emotional shape than struggling debtors.
                    Boy, did I need this thread today! I'm up for two different jobs with two different defense contractors. Neither job requires a security clearance, but I know that both employers DO check credit. I've been sweating that, but had already decided that if they actually bother to ask me about my credit and/or bankruptcy, these are the kinds of points I would make when responding. Now I just have to hope that they wouldn't just automatically dismiss me on that basis without talking with me about it first!

                    Been out of work for almost a year now, and it's freakin' demoralizing. I'm not only fighting the credit pull hurdle but also age discrimination. I'll get great responses, have great phone interviews, even great in-person interviews, but never get hired. Even get told that I'm one of only 3 or 5 people interviewed out of 200 or 400, then nothing... someone else always gets the job. Gotta be someone younger and/or someone with cleaner credit! Have a stellar resume IMHO and never had a problem getting a job in the past so I know I have good interview skills and sell myself well, and have been anything but lazy in this job search. Anyway, really salivating for one of the two jobs mentioned above, and just praying every day that this turns in my favor... finally.

                    Thanks to everyone upthread for their input.
                    Ch. 7 filed: 11/6/09
                    341 held: 12/7/09
                    DISCHARGED 2/10/10!!
                    unemployed since 4/09

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Ha. Do they eventually tell you that you are "overqualified"? I wish you the best of luck.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by tigergem View Post
                        Ha. Do they eventually tell you that you are "overqualified"? I wish you the best of luck.
                        Thanks for the kind wishes. Yes, I have been told "you'd be bored here." Never mind the fact that I need to work and at this point would be so grateful for any job that pays a liveable wage that I'd probably work my fanny off and never leave!
                        Ch. 7 filed: 11/6/09
                        341 held: 12/7/09
                        DISCHARGED 2/10/10!!
                        unemployed since 4/09

                        Comment


                          #13
                          This is my biggest concern re: ch. 7 bankruptcy. In 3 years I will be applying for a federal job with the IRS, would that be enough time passed to show that the events that causes the bankruptcy are behind me?
                          Chapter 7 Filed: 2/24/10
                          341 Meeting: 3/23/10
                          Deadline for Objections: 5/24/10
                          Discharged and closed: 5/29/10

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Bankruptcy will not prevent you from getting a federal job in most cases. What they don't like to see is lots of unpaid debt, defaults on federal obligations, etc.

                            If you've conducted your financial affairs properly for 3 years after bankrupcty, I can't imagine you'll have a problem. You will need to disclose it on your background investigation, but as in filing for bankruptcy, honesty is your best approach here.
                            Case Closed > 2/08/2010

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by BobMango View Post
                              Bankruptcy will not prevent you from getting a federal job in most cases. What they don't like to see is lots of unpaid debt, defaults on federal obligations, etc.

                              If you've conducted your financial affairs properly for 3 years after bankrupcty, I can't imagine you'll have a problem. You will need to disclose it on your background investigation, but as in filing for bankruptcy, honesty is your best approach here.
                              Great. Thank you. I plan to be extra careful with my finances because it's imperative that I get a job in the financial sector or with the IRS when I graduate in 3 years.

                              In the meantime I'm also going to try to clean up my credit report after a year or so. My BK attorney claims this can be done, with the exception of the Bankruptcy staying on my credit report for 10 years, of course.

                              I'm assuming I'll also soon have a foreclosure on there too.
                              Chapter 7 Filed: 2/24/10
                              341 Meeting: 3/23/10
                              Deadline for Objections: 5/24/10
                              Discharged and closed: 5/29/10

                              Comment

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